Saturday, November 19, 2005

Important issues considered: pre-marital sex, marriage, rules and discipline, ministerial ethics, etc.

Listen to these two points of view, and think about them. Where do you stand? What would you do?

Debate Excerpt (Click Me)

p.s., Personally, I listened to this weeks ago, but have found it hard to shake, so I'm sharing it with you! JAZ


Dylan Potter said...

I'm glad you posted that one, I had the same reaction. I know both of those individuals.

The wonderful thing about situations like this is that the minister has the opportunity to counsel the couple, and perhaps "win" them.

Otherwise, they will go to a justice of the peace...and remain hostile to the church as a whole. The only time I've ever said "no" to doing a wedding is when the woman was moving on to her 4th beau, and her mother, who is a long-standing member of the church, told me that she was not comfortable with the idea of the marriage in question.

This was such an extreme example, and due to some very unhealthy patterns within the previous marriages, I opted out for the sake of conscience.

David said...

This was a very interesting debate. My first reaction when the question came up was to open the Scriptures and show them where they had erred. After incurring an ackowledgment of their sin, I would marry them. "The Proper Distinction Between Law and Gospel."

After considering that for a while, I realized it was too simplistic and naive to believe it would be that cut and dry.

The law is on their hearts and they know what they are doing is contrary to God's Law. Otherwise, they wouldn't be pleasantly surprised that Paul would say yes. The second use of the law is already in there somehow, it just needs to be given a name in the second or third meeting.

Therefore, I side with yo' pappy.

Jeff Dean said...

Does anyone remember the scene from Brideshead Revisted where Julia breaks off her relationship with Charles after they pray for her father to receive the last rites?

Hands-down the most perfect moment in cinematic history, in my opinion.

Tim Galebach said...

Your dad gets slightly (very?) prescriptive in his outline of how the gospel works in that situation, I guess in his defense he's fighting fire with fire. In the end, I suppose the process is still frighteningly open-ended from most peoples' point of view.

But oh my. I get almost physically ill when I hear the guy asking "do you ever outline with them what God's view of marriage is?" As if the most important thing in this situation is to cover your own ass and make absolutely sure you don't give them any wrong impressions of what marriage should be.

Off the soapbox.

cjdm said...

dude. that is vintage zahl.

"be as funny as possible." and wait for the tangential encounter with the radical truth of the gospel (take it or leave it) to create absolute conviction of sin.
so great. in fact, perhaps genius.

PZ and his progeny could preach the gospel in Studio 54 (or at Stones Throw HQ) and that is the way forward.

Anonymous said...

PZ is a genius communicator, with all people, at all levels, and not just because he has all these great gifts of communication ( bon mots, quick wit, prodigious vocabulary, broad experience) but because he totally owns the gospel---it rules him. He has done more for my (very happy) marriage than any other person alive, and I believe my husband would say the same.